Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/15/1999 08:05 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 157-PFD ALLOWABLE ABSENCES Number 001 CHAIR JAMES announced the first item up is HB 157, "An Act relating to absences from the state while serving on oceangoing vessels of the United States merchant marine for purposes of eligibility for permanent fund dividends; and providing for an effective date." Number 024 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS presented HB 157 noting that it was brought forward for several reasons and that he has a lot of backup for the specifics of the situation. He said there are currently 13 exemptions to the permanent fund dividend program and that he would like to add one more to take that hex off [laughter]. He pointed out that there's a very small number of people that this will be made available to. And all these people meet all of the other conditions of the permanent fund other than the 180 days and it's only because they are out working, they're on ships and they have to be gone. It's for merchant mariners who live and reside in the state of Alaska and who have their families here, and who are out of the state for more than 180 days a year. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said the merchant marines are often equated with the military, especially in times of war. He mentioned that he worked on river boats on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers and was gone for nine weeks and was in port six or seven days while loading - so he probably spent nine months outside Texas. He said no one could have convinced him that he wasn't a Texan because his family was there, he paid rent, and so on. Therefore, he can relate to the mariner's concerns. CHAIR JAMES noted Representative Hudson's arrival. Number 103 [Seafarers Recruitment Video - five minutes]. Number 231 DEBORAH VOGT, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Revenue, reiterated the department's stand on additions or subtractions to the allowable absence list are in the hands of the legislature. She said the department has two concerns, the first is that allowable absences be administrable and that there be clear lines around what is and what is not allowed so that staff (from the very beginning of the process up through review and appeals) can determine who is and who is not eligible. She said she believes the second function, which is appropriate for the department, is to raise equity consideration. MS. VOGT noted that the merchant mariner proposal is an administrable absence. She said, as she understands it, the Coast Guard can tell the department who is and who is not a merchant mariner. She noted that the Seafarers Recruitment Video would qualify as a vocational program and that a person who is a student (at that program) would qualify for an allowable absence today. The issue is whether that person would continue to qualify if he or she took a career in the merchant marine. MS. VOGT emphasized that the way this legislation is drafted, the family members would not also qualify and that's an important distinction between it and other absences. If the point is that the person's family and ties are all in Alaska then that's the way it should be drafted. Most of the absences (student, military, and so on), family members of the person who does qualify are also eligible for dividends. She said it was a large part of HB 2, which was brought up last year, to reinstate that absence because a court decision had denied eligibility for spouses. Number 286 CHAIR JAMES asked how many appeals are based on allowable absences. MS. VOGT responded that she believes most appeals deal with allowable absences. She indicated the question of intent is difficult - did you maintain your intent to remain or to become a resident - did you harbor the intent to become an Alaskan when you arrived here (indisc.--noise) or were you really coming for vacation and then decided to stay. CHAIR JAMES asked what percentage of activity is on appeals. Number 326 NANCI JONES, Director, Permanent Fund Dividend Division, Department of Revenue, replied (between review and appeal) approximately 16 staff members handle approximately 25,000 cases during the application period (March 31 through the next March - one year). Number 342 HAROLD HOLTON, Representative, Seafarers International Union, came before the committee and read the following testimony: I'd like it clear that I'm here on behalf of all merchant seaman, who are denied their permanent fund dividend. I was born in Ketchikan, raised in Ketchikan, Petersburg, and Juneau, upon my completion of six years in the Marine Corps, I came back to Alaska and became a state trooper for a short period of time. I was a salmon tender captain for 15 years, before becoming a union Representative. The Seafarers opened an office in Anchorage, almost two years ago to the day. Our objective is to recruit Alaskans to go to our unlicensed apprenticeship program in Piney Point, Maryland, and give them an opportunity to obtain good paying jobs with good benefits when they complete the program. I first became alerted to the fact that merchant seaman [seamen] were being denied their permanent fund, by a merchant seaman from a different union. His name was Ross Perrine from Palmer, and he owns a home, has an Alaska driver's license, voter registration card, et cetera. He's been denied the fund since the inception. I went to one of our ships, and found that a boatswain on the Tote ship Northern Lights has also experienced the same problems. His name is John Glenn and he will be testifying this morning. Number 368 My recruiting effort has taken me around a lot of the state, and in my interviews with young people, I seem to have their interest in the program until the question of the permanent fund dividend comes up, then I am told they are no longer interested. I thought to myself, and have shared this view, if these people seemed awfully shortsighted, and until I really thought about it, this is probably the only steady money they have ever seen, and are reluctant to let it go under any circumstance. These merchant seamen being denied do not have a choice when they sail, as to whether they can sail in Alaska or not. Sailing is based on a seniority system, and believe it or not, our Alaska routes, are in high demand. The ones that have the Alaska routes Ross and John are denied because they are not physically in state a minimum of 180 days. All of our Alaskans that have been accepted to Piney Point because they are Alaska residents. I would hate to discourage good young people, (short sighted as they may be) from enjoying such a career opportunity. Right now we have 18 Alaskans who have graduated from Pitney Point, and we presently have two in school. Besides the 18 graduates, we have created a "riding maintenance" gang. These merchant seamen go on oil tankers and do preventative maintenance. We hired 10 riding gang a year ago, and all have done an outstanding job. When they have a year of sea time, they will be sent back to Piney Point and upgraded to able-bodied seaman. We will start training and working a new crew. This crew averages $3,200.00 per month, with full benefits. Two of these merchant seamen have recently put money down on homes in the Wasilla area. They also will be denied their permanent fund dividend. Number 405 An article in the Anchorage news, last Monday the 12, did an article on our first native Alaskan. This has generated such a positive response it is hard for me to keep up with it. The first day it generated about 20 calls, and yesterday I received 71 inquiries. This has resulted in six tests being given yesterday, and six more scheduled on Friday, plus two in Soldotna, one in Anchor Point, two in Kodiak, two in Ketchikan, and several from Willow. These numbers are candidates that are qualified. In my estimation, we are not talking about any more than 200 merchant seamen over a ten-year period although I hope for many more than that. This concludes my statement and I urge you to support HB 157. Number 420 CHAIR JAMES announced that the Senate State Affairs Standing Committee will be hearing the Senate's version of HB 157 this afternoon [SB 119 PFD ALLOWABLE ABSENCES]. Number 433 ROCKY LATTA, member, Seafarers Union, testified via teleconference from Anchorage noting that his son Eden has struggled for a period of time. When Eden saw Congressman Young's letter on the merchant marine program, it changed his life. He said his son recently made a down payment on a home in Girdwood and is looking forward to a bright future with the International Seafarers Union. Mr. Latta said, while Representative Young is trying to start the fire, by working toward building a viable merchant marine industry in Alaska, it seems the state is pouring water on this effort by negating the permanent fund [dividend]. He added that the merchant seaman have high-paying jobs that offer opportunities for advancement. MR. LATTA stated, "I read ... the legislature is trying to push Alaska jobs for Alaskans and I think if we allow the permanent fund [dividend] we're going to get more members in the union who live in Alaska and they're going to spend their paychecks in Alaska. Currently most of the folks that are delivering goods to Alaska are from the state of Washington, California and the East coast, they do not spend their money here. It just seems to me what's happening, and I like Harold [Holton] did 20 years in the United States Marine Corps, reminds me when I was a young kid back at Camp Pendleton, we use to go down to San Diego, and ... signs that used to be on the door of establishments, 'No dogs or sailors allowed,' and I kind of feel to some respect that's the way we're treating our folks here that are merchant marines. It appears to me to be a double standard when you look at some of the other 13 groups of people who are allowed to receive the permanent fund [dividend ]. Please do not treat Eden like a guest in this state, this is his home, he lives here, he spends his money here." Number 480 EDEN LATTA, member, Seafarers Union, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He noted that he attended the training program in Maryland and was recently upgraded to an able-bodied seaman. He said he was denied his permanent fund dividend because he spent 130 days outside the state (working on a ship) and feels like an outsider because the state is denying him the dividend. Mr. Latta noted that he has lived in Alaska for 10 years, he loves it here, and can't imagine living anywhere else. MR. LATTA said he understands the military is eligible for permanent fund dividends unless they are sent overseas. He mentioned that he has a Department of Defense identification card, that the merchant mariners go through drills, they do everything with the military, they even had the military riding with them. In addition, the merchant seamen are placed in danger (which is the same as the military) when they go through the chemical biological radiation defense drills every week. He also mentioned that the ship was damaged from mortar rounds in Somalia. Therefore, he doesn't see where this is much different from the military. Number 518 JOHN GLENN, Seafarers Union, testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of HB 157 noting he has been in Alaska since 1985. He met the allowable absence when it was six months, but now that it has gone up to eight months, it's hard for him to qualify. When he's off the ship, he's in Alaska with his wife and grandchildren. Mr. Glenn pointed out that he has been denied his dividend since 1992 and has been appealing truthfully every year. MR. GLENN further stated that he has four months of home-time in Alaska and is a permanent employee of Northern Lights which is operated by TOTE (Totem Ocean Trailer Express). He also mentioned that he has completed the appeals form with the required dates but hasn't heard from the division. Mr. Glenn stated, "Whenever I receive information from the Permanent Fund Dividend Division, it's impossible for me to follow it. I'm just like Eden because one time I answered the permanent fund people, I told them that this is my home, this is where I hang my hat, and it's where I spend my money. Even if I have a family over in Washington, I live here ... and I think there's only a few of us up here. I would say 90 percent of the crew on the ships right now are from a different state. But I don't see any difference between me and a wife of a military person that's overseas - no time in Alaska and he doesn't even spend the money up here. I live here and I intend to stay here. And we are also part of the military defense with the country ... because we do carry cargos to go to the Persian Gulf." Number 572 KAREN BRAND, Vice President, Alaska State Chamber of Commerce, Anchorage, came before the committee. She said the Alaska State Chamber of Commerce fully supports HB 157. She read a position statement that was adopted by the chamber last fall, "Efforts to provide more opportunities for local hire and quality, professional skill developments are hampered by the continued disqualification of merchant mariners from getting their permanent fund dividend." She said HB 157 gives the merchant mariners that opportunity and inspiration to pursue a career as a merchant mariner. Ms. Brand emphasized that the permanent fund dividend would serve as an incentive for Alaskans to retain their residency in Alaska rather than moving outside to start a career at sea. She said it would resolve the inequities for Alaskans who make their living employed at sea (on the freighters and tankers) which service Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY asked how many individuals would be impacted by HB 157. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS replied that, in the next ten years, it should be less than 200. EDDIE BURKE, Legislative Administrative Assistant to Representative Sanders, added that there are currently 28 people in the system that would actually be impacted. Number 614 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked why aren't the spouses and dependents included. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said his understanding is that the spouses and dependents stand on their own. CHAIR JAMES noted that the merchant mariners live in Alaska and have family here. Number 635 MR. HOLTON (Representing Seafarers International Union) stated, "The situation that we're creating, is we're creating resident Alaskans. If indeed somebody is transferred to Seattle, they're not resident Alaskans and they wouldn't come under our program. We want it very clear, if a resident is qualified they're qualified on their own merit." He reiterated that Ross Perrine's family has lived in Palmer for several years, they receive the permanent fund dividend, however he is not qualified because he is outside too long. Mr. Holton noted that John Glenn's route is only from Anchorage to Tacoma and goes nowhere else. (He spends one day in Tacoma loading the ship, the rest of his time he's on the sea headed to Alaska or Tacoma). He indicated that there's a line there that Mr. Glenn crosses that he can't say that he's in Alaska and that's where he gets into problems, and Ross Perrine is the same (delivering oil out of Valdez). REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER said his concern is that we are creating a differential between military families and the families of merchant mariners. He stated that it's a well-known law in the permanent fund dispersement system that military families that come to Alaska, or are transferred out of Alaska, and "by golly," they remain Alaskans until they are out of the military because they have a cursory Alaskan residence. The notion is correct that if you have a family in Alaska, you're an Alaskan and if your job takes you out-of-state and you're coming back that's just fine. He noted that he will not hold HB 157. However, it doesn't address, and it's not the intent of this bill to address that other problem. Number 674 CHAIR JAMES announced that the discussion on HB 157 will continue after hearing testimony on HB 156. HB 157-PFD ALLOWABLE ABSENCES Number 115 CHAIR JAMES called the committees attention back to HB 157,"An Act relating to absences from the state while serving on oceangoing vessels of the United States merchant marine for purposes of eligibility for permanent fund dividends; and providing for an effective date." She stated for the record: First of all we keep finding ourselves boxed-in in making decisions in the state of equity, and much of the time ... are based on something - other decision that we've made prior, that maybe wasn't a good idea. I believe I will vote to pass your bill out, I just want to put these things on the record and my concerns about this and it has to do with the administration of the permanent fund dividend program and the problems that we have because of absences. And we want to be sure, when we have a permanent fund dividend, that we include Alaskans, true Alaskans, Alaskan residents, but it's very difficult to define what an Alaskan resident is. And certainly, if they qualify for an Alaska residence, and their family is here, and they live here, and they don't really live anywhere else, but they're working somewhere else - bringing in money from some place else to spend here in the state, I think we should feel pretty inclined to say, "Well that's okay." It's been a real problem trying to determine what these valid absences are, and every year - we have another bill coming up later in the meeting here which is the same thing -- they're talking about people who are in private industry, we've heard that bill before, because state employees are allowed to be away for more than 180 days, but private sector employees are not, so that's an inequity. So how do we fix it, do we say the state employees aren't eligible either - and now we're level again? Do we back down to get level, or do we continue to go forward to get level? I just wanted to make that comment for the record because it's a dilemma for me. And in fact is, we ended up - as I recall the circumstances - I got a lot of telephone calls and letters and (indisc.--paper shuffling) from a lot of folks in this state when we denied the Peace Corps folks and that happened in the Senate - or the other body last year, because we're adding more folks in, and if you're going to add somebody in, we'll take somebody out. I mean that business of just adding on more and more absences is a real problem. I don't know what the answer is, I just wanted to let you know it is a concern of mine. Number 183 And I wish it were that we could really define Alaska residence better in a way so we didn't have this deadline, "If you're gone for more than 180 days, I'm sorry you're out," because the number of days doesn't tell us whether they're Alaskan or not, it doesn't do it. I share with Representative Whitaker's concern about the military, I have a huge percentage of the people in my district are military, I'm not going to go out and try to make something that's going to make them mad, but on the other hand we know there are military that come here and decide to be an Alaskan because of the permanent fund dividend. Having said all those kinds of things, you have to take a second thought as to whether or not the dividend program is really what we want for Alaska. Whether or not people are becoming Alaskans because of the dividend or not, and just exactly how big a dividend we could have without causing that kind of ruckus. You know we can have people move in with seven or eight children and the size of the dividend of now is the real problem. So, I don't have any answers, I only have concerns, and I don't have any positions either, I still only have concerns, but I wanted to put all those things on the record - that the more we open this up, and 200 folks are not very many considering, and certainly they ought to be entitled. And I certainly will support their entitlement on this issue, but the whole thing has me very concerned about the future of Alaska and who our residents are, and why they're here. And those are very important issues to me and I take these things very seriously. Number 224 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated, "All I'm suggesting is that this is the policy call that we have to make and while I'm sympathetic to this particular group [merchant mariners], we have to know that there's a whole, whole bunch of others who maybe have lost their job in Alaska, ... that's the policy call that we all have to make, and so everybody knows right up front that that's what we're dealing with." CHAIR JAMES noted Representative Ogan's arrival. Number 278 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON moved to report HB 157 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
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